Hello hello, and welcome back to Reading the Wheel of Time. This week is the very first week of the fourth book in the series, The Shadow Rising, and I am tremendously excited about it. Chapter one manages to hit a really good stride where it simultaneously repeats all the information readers might need to be reminded of since they read The Dragon Reborn, but also gives us lots of new information in each section. The narrative is tight and exciting, and it serves as a pretty good reminder of everything I love about the series so far.
The title of chapter one is “Seeds of Shadow” and it is so long that I had to break this post up into two and I am sorry but everything in the Min and Amyrlin section seemed so important and I had to cover it all. So this week will be “Min and the Amyrlin” and next week will be “What All of Rand’s Enemies Are Up To.”
But before that, we gotta have another beginning that isn’t the Beginning, and another wind springing up somewhere because that’s how these books roll.
This time, the wind rises over the plain called the Caralain Grass. It passes Dragonmount and flows down to Tar Valon, where the Ogier-made buildings seem to grow out of the ground, rather than having been built, and the White Tower gleams at the center of the square where crowds of people mill about their business and a few approach the broad stairs leading up to the open doors of the Tower. These are petitioners, those with problems or questions they hope the Aes Sedai can answer. And among them, her cloak drawn up to hide her face, is Min.
Uncomfortably disguised by wearing a dress, Min is doing her best to act and stand like the other women she sees as she climbs the stairs and steps into the entry hall, where all the petitioners—mostly women—huddle nervously, waiting to be spoken to by the Accepted traversing the hall.
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She wondered what these people would do if they knew what she knew. Run screaming, perhaps. And if they knew her reason for being here, she might not survive to be taken up by the Tower guards and thrown into a cell. She did have friends in the Tower, but none with power or influence. If her purpose was discovered, it was much less likely that they could help her than that she would pull them to the gallows or the headsman behind her. That was saying she lived to be tried, of course; more likely her mouth would be stopped permanently long before a trial.
She told herself to stop thinking like that. I’ll make it in, and I’ll make it out. The Light burn Rand al’Thor for getting me into this!
Min is approached by an Accepted who introduces herself as Faolain. Min has actually met her once before, briefly, but Faolain doesn’t recognize her as Min lowers her head and respectfully explains that she has a question for the Amyrlin Seat. Suddenly, however, she catches sight of three Aes Sedai entering the hall, startling all the petitioners. Many of the visitors look scared or in awe, clumsily bowing and curtsying, a few even falling to their knees, but Min is struck for a very different reason. Her ability to see images and auras around people always shows her things around Aes Sedai, but the things she sees now are particularly gruesome. Blood, a skull, and a sickly halo cover the women, and although Min doesn’t always know what her visions mean, she knows this time—all three Aes Sedai are going to die on the same day.
Faolain speaking draws Min’s attention back, as she explains that the Amyrlin cannot see everyone, and that her next public audience is not for ten days. She insists instead that if Min explains her problem, she will be brought to the sister who can best help her. But Min is adamant, invoking the right of every woman to speak to the Amyrlin Seat, despite Faolain’s continued insistence that the Amyrlin is far too busy to see everyone. She gives her full name, Elmindreda, knowing that the Amyrlin is one of the few people who has ever heard it, and so it will mean something to her and not to Faolain or any of the other Aes Sedai. Eventually Faolain relents, and sends word to the Keeper of the Chronicles.
As Min waits, she catches sight of Sheriam, the Mistress of Novices, who seems to have bars floating in front of her eyes, and her face looks battered and bruised. Min is careful not to be seen by the woman, who would surely recognize her. A novice named Sahra arrives to take her to the Amyrlin, and every Aes Sedai they pass, even some of the servants, show Min images of violence and death. Sahra takes her discomfort as nerves about meeting the Amyrlin, and tries to comfort her, as Min struggles to keep pretending to be a stranger and not run ahead.
As they reach the Amyrlin’s door, however, the run into Gawyn, who is just leaving her chambers. He recognizes Min instantly, of course, and through him she learns that Elayne, Egwene, and Nynaeve have gone missing again. The Amyrlin claims they have been sent to do work on a farm as punishment for running away, but Gawyn does not believe it. Min finds herself glad that her friends aren’t in the tower, as her vision shows her that Gawyn, too, is going to be injured on the same day as the others she’s seen visions of.
She tries to reassure Gawyn, pointing out that if Elayne really is on a farm, she wouldn’t want him to know about it, and that pestering the Amyrlin won’t help in any case. Gawyn insists that it doesn’t make sense for it to be so secret, and that he can’t protect Elayne if he doesn’t know where she is. He mentions her “playing” at being Aes Sedai, and that she is not just his sister but also his future Queen, and Andor needs her.
Playing at being Aes Sedai? Apparently he did not realize the extent of his sister’s talent. The Daughter-Heirs of Andor had been sent to the Tower to train for as long as there had been an Andor, but Elayne was the first to have enough talent to be raised to Aes Sedai, and a powerful Aes Sedai at that. Very likely he also did not know Egwene was just as strong.
“So you will protect her whether she wants it or not?” She said it in a flat voice meant to let him know he was making a mistake, but he missed the warning and nodded agreement.
“That has been my duty since the day she was born. My blood shed before hers; my life given before hers. I took that oath when I could barely see over the side of her cradle; Gareth Bryne had to explain to me what it meant. I won’t break it now. Andor needs her more than it needs me.”
She notes his particular interest in Egwene’s safety as well, which Gawyn tries unsuccessfully to brush off. He also mentions that Galad is heartsick that Egwene is gone. They arrange to meet later, after Min is done speaking with the Amyrlin, in the practice yards where Gawyn is every day, learning swordplay. Min reminds him again not to make the Amyrlin angry with him, but he will not promise it. There is too much trouble brewing in the world, wars and rumors of the Dragon’s return, and he suggests, although doesn’t say, that the Tower is involved.
He scowled, and for an instant his face was that bloody mask again. More: a sword floated above his head, and a banner waved behind it. The long-hilted sword, like those most Warders used, had a heron engraved on its slightly curved blade, symbol of a blademaster, and Min could not say whether it belonged to Gawyn or threatened him. The banner bore Gawyn’s sigil of the charging White Boar, but on a field of green rather than the red of Andor. Both sword and banner faded with the blood.
“Be careful, Gawyn.” She meant it two ways. Careful of what he said, and careful in a way she could not explain, even to herself. “You must be very careful.”
Gawyn leaves then, and Min notes that Sahra is quite smitten with him, and will no doubt gossip about this encounter to all of her friends. Still, there’s nothing to be done about it. Sahra takes her into the chambers and introduces her to Leane, who recognizes Min immediately despite her attempts to hide in her hood.
“So you are Elmindreda, are you?” Leane said briskly. She was always brisk. “I must say you look it more in that dress than in your usual … garb.”
“Just Min, Leane Sedai, if you please.” Min managed to keep her face straight, but it was difficult not to glare. The Keeper’s voice had held too much amusement. If her mother had had to name her after someone in a story, why did it have to be a woman who seemed to spend most of her time sighing at men, when she was not inspiring them to compose songs about her eyes, or her smile?
“Very well. Min. I’ll not ask where you’ve been, nor why you’ve come back in a dress, apparently wanting to ask a question of the Amyrlin. Not now, at least.” Her face said she meant to ask later, though, and get answers. “I suppose the Mother knows who Elmindreda is? Of course. I should have known that when she said to send you straight in, and alone. The Light alone knows why she puts up with you.” She broke off with a concerned frown. “What is the matter, girl? Are you ill?”
Min, who has just seen a transparent, screaming mask of Leane’s face over her real one, does her best to school her features and asks to go in. Leane tells her to go, and Min hurries into the inner chamber, where she sees the decadent architecture from days gone by and simple furnishings that Siuan Sanche uses. Min tries to curtsy, not knowing how since she would normally be wearing boys’ clothing and making a bow instead.
Halfway down, with her skirts already spread, she froze like a crouching toad. Siuan Sanche was standing there as regal as any queen, and for a moment she was also lying on the floor, naked. Aside from her being in only her skin, there was something odd about the image, but it vanished before Min could say what. It was as strong a viewing as she had ever seen, and she had no idea what it meant.
The Amyrlin observes that Min is seeing things, and has her explain everything. Min tries to impress upon the Amyrlin the inevitability of a battle in Tar Valon, but the Amyrlin counters that she is only guessing at this part, that she doesn’t even know when this event is going to take place. Min is frustrated that the Amyrlin doesn’t understand that her visions are inevitable, as Moiraine has come to understand, and warns that she saw one Aes Sedai wearing a collar like the ones the Seanchan use, but the Amyrlin isn’t concerned about the Seanchan—she suspects the danger comes from the Black Ajah.
Min is shocked; Aes Sedai never brook even the suggestion of a hidden Ajah devoted to serving the Dark One, but the Amyrlin continues on, asking for the reason behind Min’s return. Reeling from the terrifying news about the Black Ajah, Min delivers the news that Rand has left, without Moiraine’s permission, and is on his way to Tear to retrieve Callandor, may even already have done so. The Amyrlin is frustrated at the news, and she and Min discuss how prophecies work, and how they are not there to tell Rand what to do, but rather to prove to the world the identity of the Dragon Reborn. She admits that she and Moiraine intended to guide him to the prophecies that they could be sure of, and tells Min off for objecting to their intention to control him.
“… Do you think we could trust to the Pattern, to his destiny, to keep him alive, like some story? This isn’t a story, he isn’t some invincible hero, and if his thread is snipped out of the Pattern, the Wheel of Time won’t notice his going, and the Creator will produce no miracles to save us. If Moiraine cannot reef his sails, he very well may get himself killed, and where are we then? Where is the world? The Dark One’s prison is failing. He will touch the world again; it is only a matter of time. If Rand al’Thor is not there to face him in the Last Battle, if the headstrong young fool gets himself killed first, the world is doomed…”
The Amyrlin also picks up on Min’s feelings for Rand, and Min admits the vision she had the first time she saw Rand, three women’s face, one of which was her own, and she knew that she was going to fall in love with him—as would the other two, although their faces were too blurred for Min to know who they were.
Having delivered her message, Min asks if she can go, but the Amyrlin denies her. She has other plans for Min… or rather, for Elmindreda. She decides the dresses won’t be enough to disguise Min from those who may have seen her in the Tower before, and decides curled hair and makeup will complete the image of Elmindreda, a young woman seeking sanctuary while she decides between two suitors. Min is horrified, but of course she has no choice.
Unbeknownst to the Amyrlin, however, there is someone besides Sahra and Gawyn who know of Min’s arrival—Elaida. The red sister saw Min enter the Amyrlin’s chamber and recognized her, knows that she had spent much time with the Amyrlin in the past and that she is a friend of Egwene, Nyenave and Elayne. And Elaida is furious with the Amyrlin for sending Elayne away where Elaida cannot find her.
Elaida possesses the ability of Foretelling, and her very first foretelling had been that the royal line of Andor would be the key to defeating the Dark One in the Last Battle. She’d kept the information to herself, and attached herself to Morgase as soon as it became clear that Morgase would be the next to hold the throne, at the expense of all other ambitions. She thinks that she could have been Amyrlin herself if her focus had been elsewhere, and now all her sacrifices are in danger of meaning nothing because Elayne has disappeared.
But it is more than just Elayne, there is also they mysterious Rand al’Thor, the ta’veren man who had spurred Elaida’s foretelling again, showing her chaos and strife for Andor and maybe the world. She knows Moiraine, who spirited Rand away from Andor before Elaida could question him ,is close with the Amyrlin: no one else seems to remember their close friendship, and how they had suddenly walked away from each other after they were raised to Aes Sedai. Elaida also knows that Siuan has had contact with the other two rumored ta’veren, Matrim Cauthon and Perrin Aybara, and all these details prove to the red sister that the Amyrlin is up to something.
Whatever Siuan was up to, she had to be stopped. Turmoil and chaos multiplied on every side. The Dark One was sure to break free—the very thought made Elaida shiver and wrap her shawl around her more tightly—and the Tower had to be aloof from mundane struggles to face that. The Tower had to be free to pull the strings to make the nations stand together, free of the troubles Rand al’Thor would bring. Somehow, he had to be stopped from destroying Andor.
She had told no one what she knew of al’Thor. She meant to deal with him quietly, if possible. The Hall of the Tower already spoke of watching, even guiding, these ta’veren; they would never agree to dispose of them, of the one in particular, as he must be disposed of. For the good of the Tower. For the good of the world.
The sudden thought that perhaps Rand al’Thor could also be a man who could channel stops Elaida in her tracks, or even one of the other ta’veren. It’s hard to imagine that even Siuan could be capable of supporting such a thing, but then again, Elaida has no idea what the Amyrlin is capable of.
Another sister, Alviarin of the White Ajah, hears Elaida muttering to herself and interjects over the other’s thoughts. Elaida considers her, knowing that the White and Blue Ajah stand together, but also that the Whites pride themselves at being logical and dispassionate. She asks Alviarin to walk with her and tells her everything she suspects, and while Alviarin points out that Elaida has no proof, Elaida is confident that she has made a beginning.
Okay, the way Min sees the deaths of the Aes Sedai is deeply creepy. I suppose I’m not really that surprised by how coolly the Amyrlin responded—Siuan is plenty self-possessed, and she’s not going to let Min see her alarm even if she is alarmed—but I hope she is taking Min’s visions seriously. Tar Valon has withstood so many attacks, and no doubt feels impenetrable even with Min’s gruesome news. And while I’m fairly sure the Amyrlin is right about the Whitecloaks not being a threat, (at least not yet, not at their current level of power) I think she is gravely underestimating the Seanchan. Sure, Rand and co were able to defeat them, but even with the strength of the Heroes of the Horn, Rand still had to destroy Ishamael in order for his forces to be victorious. We know more about their strengths than any character in the story currently does, and of course, there is the last section of this chapter to put the reader on their guard again.
Add to that the fact that the Amyrlin appears to believe that Min’s visions can be averted, while Min knows that they cannot, and we can see that there are some blind spots in Siuan’s vision. There’s also the still unseen danger of Elaida and her suspicions, plus there’s always a good old fashioned attack by the Forsaken—which seems unlikely to come too soon, but certainly isn’t outside the realm of possibility.
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I have to wonder about the bars Min sees across Sheriam’s face. The bruises she also anything, really, but I wonder if the bars are less about the coming conflict in the White Tower and more about something Sheriam is currently involved in. I had some questions in The Dragon Reborn about Sheriam’s handling of Egwene and the others, about the way she reacted to the discovery of the Gray Man’s corpse and the reason another one was found in her bed—it feels like there is something else going on with the Mistress of Novices than what we have yet seen, although I don’t know what that would be. But perhaps she is trapped by something, or maybe the bars across her eyes signify blinders, that she cannot or will not see something important that she really needs to see.
And as for Siuan, it might be a bit of a stretch, but the image of her lying naked on the floor reminded me of Egwene’s last trip through the ter’angreal. She saw herself as Amyrlin, and found herself in conflict with Elaida when she refuses to order Rand’s gentling. Elaida orders that Egwene be taken, and then Egwene is struck on the head by Beldeine. When she comes to, she is laid out naked on a table, in preparation for having her will forcibly turned to the Shadow by the thirteen Black Ajah channeling through thirteen Myrddraal.
Although Egwene was certainly herself in this experience, the similarities feel significant to me, especially since this section ends with a bit about Elaida’s suspicions and resentments towards Siuan. Is it possible that this fate lies in store for Siuan? I’m also reminded of the first time we learned about Moiraine and Siuan’s secret plans to find and guide the Dragon Reborn, way back in The Great Hunt (Chapters 4 and 5) when they discussed it at Fal Dara. The Amyrlin mentioned the danger of discovery, especially to her, and that they will both be stilled if their plot is discovered. She then goes on to talk about how “[o]nly twice since the Breaking of the World has the Amyrlin Seat been stripped of stole and staff,” and how an Amyrlin once deposed and stilled is kept around as a servant in the White Tower, to be an example to others.
This shows us that, if Elaida were to decide to unseat Siuan, stilling is definitely a part of that process, and I could see Min’s vision being related to that. Not sure why people have to be naked for these things, but both stilling and the tampering the Black Ajah would do involve interacting with a channeler’s connection to the True Source—either exploiting it or cutting it off. Also, both require the same number of women, thirteen, as we see from the attempted gentling of Rand in Egwene’s ter’angreal experience. So the processes seem to be fairly similar, and Min’s vision might indicate either. That’s my theory, anyway.
It’s hard to imagine what could cause so much death and destruction within the White Tower that even servants, not to mention Warders and Aes Sedai, are going to die. Even Gawyn’s going to suffer injury in whatever happens. I really felt for him in this scene, and I think it’s easy to overlook him when you have Galad around doing his tall, serious, duty-at-all-costs thing. But Gawyn shows us here that his sense of duty is just as strong, even if it does have more room for interpretation and lighthearted moments that Galad’s does. I was really struck by Gawyn’s description of swearing the oath at Elayne’s cradle, even though he was so young himself. It reminded me of Lan, really, and the sense of duty that he carries with him for a kingdom that died when he was still an infant.
It’s interesting to see people like Elayne and her brothers, like Lan, juxtaposed with the Two Rivers folk. They have known who they are, who they were meant to be, for their whole lives. Like the people of Fal Dara, that sense of duty and purpose is woven into them from birth. Meanwhile we have Nynaeve and Egwene and Perrin and Mat, and of course/especially Rand, who find themselves possessed of incredible powers and playing important roles that they could never have dreamed of, and for which they are not at all mentally prepared. Moiraine and the Amyrlin’s frustrations with Rand are understandable, from their point of view, but how could they reasonably expect anything different? How could they think Rand would handle such a change to his sense of identity, the arrival of such a huge and terrifying burden?
Which, I suppose, is kind of the point of the story.
Still, one wonders at what point the new generation will begin to outstrip the plans and understanding of the current one. Moiraine and the Amyrlin still have more knowledge and understanding of the Shadow than Rand, more education and channeling experience than Nynaeve and Egwene and Elayne. But one day Rand will surpass them in knowledge, and of course figure out saidin on his own. Not to mention how to fight the Dark One. And Nynaeve, Elayne and Egwene are already known to be more powerful than any Aes Sedai living… as soon as they can master their potential, that is. But that day will come, and after so long working and planning for this, I think that will be a very strange day for Moiraine and the Amyrlin, and for a lot of other people who have ruled kingdoms or been at the front lines of the fight against the Shadow. Now that the Dragon has arrived, he will pick his own champions and generals, and although I’m sure the older guard will play an important role in everything that is to come, they will find the burden of being the only ones planning, the only ones who know what is going on, shifted from them.
I wonder a lot about what it means in the Prophecy that the Dragon will break the world again. Those who read or hear that prophecy see it as portending certain, inevitable destruction, the kind of Breaking that happened last time. But it doesn’t necessarily have to be the same as what happened after the taint was placed on saidin. Certainly there will be violence and destruction in the Last Battle, but the Dragon’s return may herald change that is just as profound and yet not as terrible for humanity as the last one was. Elayne and Egwene taking charge of Andor and the White Tower, nations abandoning old grudges and alliances alike to follow the Dragon, at least one person figuring out how to wield saidin without losing his mind—these things will change the world forever, without anyone needing to raise a mountain or tear a city down in a taint-blinded fury.
But I digress. Poor, poor Min thought she was going to just walk in, deliver some news to the Amyrlin, and be set free? Honey, you know how these Aes Sedai work.
When it comes to the romances blossoming, I am starting to see what some of the commenters (back when I was still reading the comments) have pointed out in previous weeks, and which has been suggested by the effects Rand left in his wake in Jarra—the role the Pattern may play in who falls in love with whom. Min talks about it here in this chapter, how she barely knows Rand, how she tries to treat the viewing as a joke but knows that it is inevitable. And somehow that knowledge has already bred love inside her, as much as she wanted to resist it. The Pattern, and ta’veren power, is the only thing that really makes sense of such a reaction.
It reminds me of how the novelization of Star Wars Episode III suggested that Anakin and Padme were drawn to each other because the Force pushed them together. And it’s certainly more interesting to have a reason behind these feelings besides a bad fiction trope. But I have to admit, it’s a bit squicky, the show characters having so little control in something so intimate and purpose. No means no, the Pattern. But I guess the Wheel of Time doesn’t operate on a basis of consent. That’s kind of what fate is, I suppose.
In this section, we also get the Amyrlin explaining a bit more about the Prophecies of the Dragon and their purpose. The point that the Prophecies are not meant as guides for the Dragon Reborn but rather as guides for others to identify him is an interesting one. I was kind of getting that impression already, from how Moiraine handled Rand’s decision to go after Callandor and how Rand formed the erroneous idea that claiming Callandor would somehow “end” his struggles. Perhaps he was too caught up in his own doubts over whether or not he actually is the Dragon Reborn, but it also did seem like he thought fulfilling a Prophecy would change something in a drastic way, and there’s no real reason to think so. The Shadow was already convinced of his identity; killing Ishamael may have brought a reprieve, but it’s hardly going to ease the pressure on Rand’s shoulders. Quite the opposite.
And lastly, we have Elaida. She’s worried me since we met her, and I’m really glad that we’ve learned more about her story. I was actually surprised by the revelation that she had a fortelling about Andor being important in the Last Battle, but explains a lot. And proves she’s not a Darkfriend, which had still been up in the air for me. Now that we know that the Black Ajah are real, we know it’s a good thing that Moiraine and Siuan kept their knowledge to themselves, even beyond the danger of some of the other “good” Aes Sedai thinking that even the Dragon must be gentled. However, I’ve been remembering my early comments about the rampant distrust that Aes Sedai have for each other that is due in part to how they are trained, and how that could lead to a lot of problems. Here we have Siuan and Moiraine working one prong of a campaign against the Shadow and Elaida working another, and yet they are also working at cross-purposes to each other, to the detriment of both, especially if Elaida decides that the Amyrlin must be unseated. Of course, she doesn’t know this now, but what the Amyrlin has Elayne doing in the fight against the Black Ajah, not to mention Elayne’s connection with Rand, are probably exactly the reason Andor and its rulers will be so important when Tarmon Gai’don comes. Still, even if she did know the full picture… well, I get the impression Elaida would want to have the Dragon gentled. She is Red Ajah, after all.
Next week we’re going to cover the latter half of chapter one, in which we will catch up with Bornhald Jr and Mordeth-Fain, aka Ordeith, as well as High Lady Suroth, the Seanchan, and a prisoner who was not always called Pura.
Sylas K Barrett struggles a lot with the concept of fate in fiction, but is intrigued to learn more about how the Pattern works.
The wind is an invocation of the Muse in the WoT books. Classic opening to epic poetry that Jordan used to indicate that we should consider this series epic not just in scope, but in nature, just as epic poems were in the day.
First grammar police stuff:
Amerlyn = Amyrlin
thime = time
strenght = strength
alsoanything = also anything
than we have yet seen = than what we have yet seen (maybe?)
fortelling = foretelling
(Mods feel free to delete that after correcting)
So happy the read is starting up again! I am really looking forward to seeing how they handle Min’s visions in the show. This sequence in particular should be (as Sylas says) “super creepy” visually.
And of course Sylas is already twigging to the Elaida Siuan conflict and its likely conclusion. Can’t wait to hear the theories based on the enemy actions next week!
“Elayne and Egwene taking charge of Andor and the White Tower”
A single dependent clause that sums up most of three books. Nifty.
“ probably exactly the reason Andor and its rulers will be so important when Tarmon Gai’don comes.”
There’s been a lot of ‘so close yet so far’ in these posts, but this one absolutely takes the cake.
Another typo: last sentence of the recap has Eliada.
Stupid visions and their stupid inevitability. This part, with the lead up to the split and to Gawyn’s arc is fairly unpleasant for me. Just ugh.
I guess it’s nice to see the visions highlighted for their creepiness and not just foreshadowing.
@2 and 4: Fixed–thanks!
wonderful post, thank you![.](//s04.flagcounter.com/mini/Jkzv/bg_FFFFFF/txt_DEDEDE/border_FFFFFF/flags_0/" width="1"/>)
Chapter 1 is a prologue in disguise! At least, the way RJ uses prologues (which become a bit extreme going forward).
This is where we first start to see a glimpse of just how incompetent Elaida is, and how much she might as well be a dark friend for what difference it would make to team light, although at this point it requires some future knowledge to make the connection.
[SPOILERS]
Elaida assumes that the foretelling refers to Elayne, but never realizes that it instead refers to the son of Tigrane: Rand who she is so desperate to depose of at this point.
*depose should be dispose
@7 I was wondering where the prologue went and then was like, “oh, RJ called the prologue “chapter 1″ this time.” :p
Wow, Sylas actually missed something.
BrasilianEngineer@8, there is enough information already to put together who Rand’s mother might be, and therefore who Elaida’s prophecy is really about. Not that I caught it this early in my first read.
@1:
That is definitely an influence on Jordan’s work in The Wheel of Time.
@11 – How so? When do we hear the story about the foretelling and her running away?
Fascinating observations. I don’t have much to add, other than:
It does not require the number to be thirteen, that is merely the traditional number used by the Tower to gentle the False Dragons, probably because that is the maximum number that can link together and also False Dragons tend to be incredibly strong. As we see in a few chapter, Egwene has stilled one of the Black Ajah she fought the The World of Dreams, all by her lonesome.
Sylas apologizes for having to split a long first chapter into two posts. Just wait until he gets to the 100-page prologues in some of the later books.
@11:
We find out about her disappearance pretty early, but not where she disappeared to, or why. I can’t find the exact reference where we first learn of it. In this book (Ch 34), we find out that Gitara Moroso sent her to the Waste, because of a foretelling. That’s when it becomes obvious that she is Rand’s mother. I’m not implying that it is at all obvious this early. Just that it’s possible to suss it out, if you are reading carefully enough:
• We learn from Almen Bunt in The Eye of the World about the chaos surrounding the Succession to Morgase because the Daughter-Heir went missing.
• We learn from Basil Gill in The Eye of the World that Rand resembles the old Daughter-Heir? Or maybe that happens in TDR.
• We learned who Luc and Tigraine are from the discussion between Verin and Moiraine and Siuan regarding Dark prophecy in The Great Hunt (When they finish healing Mat), and that Luc disappeared shortly after his sister. The prophecy tells us where he went. Which is suggestive of where she might have gone.
• We then have Elayne telling Egwene (when they meet Aviendha for the first time) in TDR that Rand looks just like these Aiel in front of them, but then hesitates and says he also looks like paintings she’s seen of Tigraine. In the same sentence.
That’s really all that’s needed for someone to jump to the conclusion that Rand is Tigraine’s son, therefore Elaida’s prophecy is about him, not Elayne and Gawyn. There’s no way they could be sure, but they could make the connection. Sylas has put stuff together on a lot less during this process.
“Even Gawyn’s going to suffer injury in whatever happens. I really felt for him in this scene,”
Don’t worry, you’ll get over it.
*squints at Westlands map* Uh, how did the wind blow “north and west” over the Caralain Grass to Tar Valon, when Tar Valon is east of the Caralain Grass?
How did Min know that the human skull see saw on the Green sister’s shoulder was “a woman’s skull”? The same way she explicitly-inexplicably knew Perrin’s hawk and falcon were female?
Elmindreda being named after a famous (fictional in-world?) seductress reminds me of Zarine.
I enjoyed the descriptions of the Amyrlin’s study, though I don’t see how Min knew where the various rare materials were from and how many millennia old they were. I was going to express amusement at the half-dozen books lying open on stands…and then I thought of the 17 partly-read audiobooks on my phone’s “bookshelves.”
“Not sure why people have to be naked for these things” might be a repeated sentiment of Sylas’s in the future.
@12 @15 Sylas even figured out already that Tigraine was Rand’s mom (in part 16 of the TDR read) so I’m a bit surprised he missed the implications here.
@17 There’s a lot of just knowing involved in Min’s abilities, and Dreaming, and dreamwalking, and Foretelling, and for that matter a lot of the intricacies of advanced channeling like the fact that a better description of a destination’s appearance makes Traveling more accurate, or knowledge of anatomy and natural cures makes for better intuitive skill with targeted Healing.
Universal Force of Creation: “Scuse me kiddies; but I’ve made plans about 50 bajillion years ago for your kid to do IMPORTANT STUFF; so if you could just get busy and make him/her; that would be cool. Now.”
One more grammar police moment:
“the affects Rand left in his wake in Jarra” should be “effects”.
@21 – Corrected, thanks!
There are also three instances where Siuan is spelled Suian.
@23 – Yikes. Those are corrected too now. Thanks!
Oh man, the foreshadowing!
Elaida is such an incredibly frustrating character in how constantly wrong-headed she is despite having the “right” intentions.
I actually was a bit surprised Sylas didn’t think about Tigraine/Rand, but as he’s reading these a few chapters at a time, I wonder how much he retains from chapter to chapter. (Not that I caught it either, yet).
Ah…The Shadow Rising. Probably my favourite book in the series.
“ one wonders at what point the new generation will begin to outstrip the plans and understanding of the current one.”
Pretty much by the end of the next book…
Siuan’s typically AS dismissal of mere males and their concern for their sister and sworn liege lady really comes back to bite her. Given Gawyn and Elayne’s unusual relationship it probably would have been wiser to send Gawyn and maybe even Galad with the Supergirls.
@27: Yeah, contrary to Siuan’s blanket dismissals, a good sword (and someone of loyalty and talent to wield it) can be quite handy in a pinch, and given that the Supergirls were hunting a band of Black Ajah who both outnumbered them and were more experienced, some backup might have saved them a lot of trouble and grief. They certainly benefited from the unexpected assistance of Mat and Aviendha (as much as they might dismiss the former); having Gawyn there as a pseudo-Warder seems like a very smart idea in hindsight.
And while there’s a tendency to write Gawyn off as controlling and authoritative here, mostly for the unforgivable crime of being born with a penis, I don’t actually think that’s the case. Let’s face it, no one likes getting the bureaucratic runaround, especially when the safety of your loved ones are involved, and I can definitely empathize with his frustration. If my sister had vanished under suspicious circumstances, and I was constantly getting stonewalled by the authority figures I’d put my trust in, I’d be pissed too. His desire to protect Elayne comes across as genuine rather than any misogynistic desire for control, and it’s a shame that ends up getting subverted to the ends of the villains.
There’s a reason AS have Warders, as even Nynaeve admits. Even more reason for a trio of overconfident, inexperienced but highly talented Accepted to have some armed backup. And who better than Elayne’s devoted brothers who also have a crush on Eggy? Instead these two potentially useful young men are left to stew in their own juices and make really bad decisions out of their anger and frustration.
@29: Well said. And if Siuan is desperate enough to hunt the Black Ajah that she’d put a hundred on the trail, as she mentions in The Dragon Reborn, then is employing two young men to the task really a step too far? (Also, “Eggy” is my new favourite nickname for Egwene, thanks :) ).
Speaking of Warders, I also just realized something: Siuan’s own is so rarely present that he might as well not exist, and I think that’s a deliberate omission on the part of Jordan. Here’s the thing: even the best and most talented leaders need honest, sober counsel if they’re to be effective, and Siuan doesn’t really have that. Between her own deliberate remoteness as the Amyrlin, the need to play things close to the chest regarding the Dragon Reborn, and her Black Ajah-related trust issues, she’s basically in a bubble at this point, and she seems to be wilfully disregarding anyone attempting to breach it, such as Min. Compare this with Moraine and Lan, who are comfortable enough with each other and have enough mutual respect that they’re each willing to call out the other when they’re doing something stupid. Lan isn’t just around to fetch and carry for Moraine, or even to watch her back in battle. He’s there to give her that outside perspective she needs to avoid becoming complacent. Given that I had to look up on the wiki if Siuan even had a Warder, something tells me she’s not seeking his advice for anything, and that leaves her vulnerable in ways that even significant magical powers can’t protect her from.
@27-@30
I don’t think it’s quite fair to blame Siuan for that. I think she would have been perfectly happy for Gawyn and Galad to go with them when they left. She very specifically didn’t involve Elayne in her BA hunt so she could retain plausible deniability with Morgase should anything go wrong. That would have been pointless (and impossible) if she had then sent Gawyn and Galad after them.
It was the Supergirls themselves who kept what they were doing from Gawyn and Galad, out of fear that they would do something to stop them. And they were probably right — both the boys would have felt duty-bound to stop Elayne from participating.
@28:
I agree that Min is a bit too hard on Gawyn in her thoughts in this scene. He literally swore an oath to protect her, and she doesn’t get to decide when that applies, because Elayne is the heir to a throne. She doesn’t have the same freedom and agency as a regular person. She doesn’t belong just to herself. She belongs to her people. That’s how monarchies work.
Gawyn is following both the dictates of his conscience, and the edicts of his mother here. She has literally charged him with protecting Elayne from herself. And both as Elayne’s mother, and Elayne’s absolute monarch ruler, Morgase certainly has the authority and right to do so under Andor’s system of government.
@32 And experience shows that Elayne definitely needs someone with the right and authority to protect her from her more reckless ideas.
@30 re: Siuan’s warder: thanks for bringing that up! That’s incredibly interesting, I had never really considered that.
Another thing. How is Siuan able to say to Gawyn that the girls are working on a farm? She cannot lie, so must have implied or suggested rather than directly said something? Sorry if I missed something obvious, I don’t have the book here to check.
@33: indeed. I became more and more annoyed with Elayne throughout the series, she never seems to learn….
@34 It’s simple. Two statements that are themselves true, but not linked together. However, stated in a way that makes Gawyn think they are linked together.
“I sent the girls away. There are farms where we send Accepted for punishment.”
To play devil’s advocate for a moment: there’s a difference between sending someone to serve as backup and foil to the supergirls, and sending someone liable to make things even worse. Take a moment to think about what types of things Gawyn and Galad would have done in the situations they got into in this adventure and consider if that really would have been any better than the alternative. I suspect Siuan would have known that Gawyn is just as hotheaded as his sister and, frankly, not really the type of foil she needs. Picking the right people for the job is just as important as filling the position at all.
Certainly, leaving Gawyn and Galad to idle around for a book and a half absolutely ends up coming back to bite her, but I think without precognition, she made the best decision she could have at the time.
@36:
Siuan didn’t really make a decision at all. She was hoping that the girls would involve Elayne without her specifying it. Counting on it even. But it was their decision to include Elayne, and to exclude her brothers.
Of course, but this is a hypothetical in response to the line of thinking above to why Gawyn/Galad were not with them, sent or otherwise. There are plenty of practical reasons why it didn’t turn out that way, but I was pointing out that fundamentally it was probably not something Siuan wanted to begin with, and for – in my mind at least – good reasons.
Hot take. Galad didn’t make any bad decisions.
@39 I mean, he did start that one war by accident.
@31-32: You bring up some good points, especially the importance of Gawyn swearing an oath to protect Elayne. That adds a whole new level to his frustrations with the Amyrlin; she isn’t just keeping him from protecting his sister, she’s also compromising the honour by which he defines himself as well. And considering how important sworn oaths are in the setting, it must be especially galling for him.
@34: Thanks, glad you found it insightful!
@15: The Dark Prophecy says Luc went to the Mountains of Dhoom, which link to the Blight, not the Aiel Waste. That isn’t a hint at Tigraine at all, just a hint at Slayer. Without any link between Tigraine and the Aiel, which we don’t get until later this book, I don’t think you can reason out that Tigraine is his mother since it’s heavily implied his mother was an Aiel woman in all other information we get. It requires a leap in logic that isn’t supported by any information we’ve been given at this point.
You’re right that Sylas did kind of figure it out, but he figured it out with a similar leap in logic that actually isn’t even factually correct. He assumed it meant Tigraine looked like an Aiel, and must have had Aiel blood in her. He basically accidentally stumbled on the correct answer by following a trail of false leads. I don’t think that counts as all the information being there for anyone to figure out, it requires you to either ignore or misinterpret the facts to determine Tigraine is the mother.
@42:
Not exactly, as it also separates the Aiel Waste from the Blight. Those mountains extend East and West all the way to Shara. I was just listing the various things that might clue a reader into the true nature of the situation, not a step-by-step list of things that add up to a conclusion, which you seem to think was my intent.
For instance, I used the word “jump” in the comment you referenced. We aren’t really disagreeing with each other here:
I also said that it wasn’t enough to be “sure” that Tigraine was Rand’s mother:
You can’t really be “sure”of it, in my opinion, until Chapter 34 of this book. As I stated in the same comment. So, I think you are actually agreeing with my conclusions here? Back to your comments:
First of all, I didn’t say that “all the information was there for anyone to figure out.” This is what I said, @11:
And, as specified above, I qualified that with my comment @15 to say that the person would be “jumping to the conclusion” and couldn’t be sure.
As for being required to “ignore or misinterpret facts,” all it requires is an open mind that you don’t actually know all the facts at any given time, and an understanding that what you think you know is a fact could be a misinterpretation. Which is the case with Rand’s mother here. These characters don’t have very many “facts” yet, and they don’t have as much context as We the Reader have. RJ was big on dramatic irony.
Only if you limit your definition of “reason out” to Sherlock Holmes-style deductive reasoning. There are two other broad categories of reasoning to consider.
Besides, we find out about He Who Comes With the Dawn being born of Far Dareis Mai in TDR from Bain and Chiad, at around the same time we find out he looks like Tigraine from Elayne. RJ linked those two things together intentionally in the narrative.
@40 I was more defending his decision to join the Whitecloaks, but you could argue that his taking the ship only started the war because Nyeave failed to provide enough information to him and had too many factions looking for a ship for her. That war was bound to happen one way or another, all he did was secure a ship that he intended to do business with.
@44:
It’s amazing what RJ could do with character viewpoint. I don’t even think “you could argue” is a strong enough term for that.
@45 Well I truthfully don’t think any one person started that war, it was a confluence of events. I’m inclined to put Galad and Nyeave in the category of people who did innocent actions that had unintended consequences. Whereas Masema was directly responsible for the agitated environment that precipitated the war.
@43: Every map I see shows The Spine of the World in between the Aiel Waste and the rest of the map, and it’s also the only mountain range I’ve seen mentioned whenever someone talks about going into the Waste or the Aiel coming out of it on my recent re-read of The Eye of the World. If you’re correct and the Mountains of Dhoom do in fact extend beyond Tarwin’s Gap and overlap a larger portion of the corner where they’d meet The Spine of the World, then I’d agree with you.
I also think we might be arguing different points. I think just the Tigraine resemblance alone, ignoring all other facts, would make one suspect, bare minimum, that he’s related to her in some way if they noted the repeated mentions of her disappearance and tried to figure out what happened to her. There’d be a suspicion even without a hard confirm or details on how it might make sense. So your original post, regardless of where the Mountains of Dhoom are located, is actually correct.
I was approaching it from the wrong angle, thinking in terms of someone trying to reconcile the conflicting information of Rand being born to a Maiden of the Spear with the Tigraine resemblance. We just have no real information to connect the two if the Mountains of Dhoom link doesn’t pan out, and everything we know about the Aiel makes it sound impossible because of their isolationist policy when it comes to most outsiders. You have to invent details that will probably be incorrect to reconcile it, like Sylas did. Again, this is just if the maps are just unclear about how far the Mountains of Dhoom stretch, if I’m incorrect about that then you could piece together that connection in the way you described.
I have no idea how early the geography is mentioned, or even if it is, but here’s the world map:
Tarwin’s gap is actually a pass that goes into the Blight where it intersects both the Three-fold land and the Westlands. We find out later in this book (so not relevant to whether someone could figure this out or not) that Janduin ran into someone who looked so much like Rand’s mother that he couldn’t kill him (Slayer). The point is that location was in the Mountains of Dhoom where the connect to the Aiel Waste. That’s where the young men go to fight Trollocs. We probably haven’t received any information about that yet, though, so I’m not sure when the reader would know that the Mountains of Dhoom are also in the Waste.
I would personally refer to that as creating a theory that reconciles the two things. Not inventing details. Sylas was positing a theory based on the information at hand. Not a bad one either. RJ has stated that there is Aiel-blood in the Andoran royal line.
Odd that Seachan lands connect to the Blight but they think all the Shadowspawn are myths
@49 If I remember correctly, the Seanchan’s blight is empty as they completely scoured it of all shadowspawn long ago. And with the ice cap, no new creatures come over from the active blight. So, it’s been centuries since Shadowspawn have been seen in Seanchan.
I think that’s the first time I’ve seen a map that big of Randland. I’d guessed that Seanchan was pretty big, but I didn’t have any idea that Shara was so huge from my first read-through.
@51:
Yeah, it’s a mashup of Southeast Asia and Africa post-breaking. Its very large. Both Seanchan and Shara are larger than the Westlands and are likely far more populous.
I’m really fascinated by the idea of fate and destiny, and Jordan does a fabulous job weaving it into his story. It’s interesting to think about consent in terms of accepting your fate, and Min already falling in love with Rand because she knows she’s supposed to. I’ve personally thought that being happy with your life is the reward for following your fate, and people who are fundamentally unhappy in their lives are not doing what destiny has planned for them. And this is why rich people can be miserable, and poor people can be content, because its not about some objective measure of success, but whether or not you are living your destiny.